Text

re: Wonder Woman’s new origin

odditycollector:

steenar:

odditycollector:

steenar:

fullofwhoa:

steenar:

odditycollector:

First of all, that’s exactly what you are doing. You’re accusing someone (who you do not know personally at all) of sexism based solely on the fact that they gave Wonder Woman a dad.

Second, I never said it was “missing” some Greek mythology. I said they wanted to more DIRECTLY tie it to the mythology. In the origin you sent me, Wonder Woman was a creation of the gods’. In this new origin she is a direct descendant of a god. She would in fact be PART god.   

“You’re accusing someone (who you do not know personally at all) of sexism based solely on the fact that they gave Wonder Woman a dad.”

I assume you are responding here to me, as the person responsible for the original post. However, I can’t offer the rebuttal I’m practically certain you deserve from me, as I remain unsure who it is you think I’m aiming such a [le gasp!] horrid and indelible accusation towards. Unless it is [double le gasp!] every person ever?

On reread, I find that I was merely implying a connection between the inevitable, irreparable insult that any respectable male ego must suffer on its encountering a woman who has, on every literal level, never needed a man, and the recent and most necessary “repair” of her origin (by some small but fearless clade of men at DC Comics) to correct that error.

But, hey! Nevermind any of that! If the new Wonder Woman canon makes you feel slightly less empty in those existentially dangerous morning hours, you may reassure yourself that no amount of ladies being hysterical on the internet may take from you your justifications of the change as narratively satisfying and objectively unproblematic.

And smile to yourself, secure once again of your indispensability to the world.

And drift yourself gently back to sleep.

1. Could you be any more full of yourself?
2. By connecting this supposed “fear of Wonder Woman” to the changes in her origin you are accusing Brian Azzarello of sexism.
3. This change, in the long run, is not as major as people are making it out to be. She isn’t any less of the awesome, strong, empowered Wonder Woman she was before. In fact, by going against her own father and in turn a GOD she is even more awesome.
4. What Azzarello is writing has made Wonder Woman more interesting to a wider audience. If you don’t like his changes, then don’t like them. But don’t try to turn them into some big conspiracy DC is putting in place to connect every character to a man because they’re intimidated by a woman who has never needed a man.

1. Oh, my. Yes.

2. So? Everyone’s a little bit sexist. You’re a little bit sexist; Well, I’m a little bit too. Admitting it is not an easy thing to do… But I guess it’s true.

And I wouldn’t single out Brian Azzarello. I don’t know how the rebooted DCU was stirred together, but I’m sure there are plenty of gatekeepers to share the blame. It’s the result that matters, and it’s the context of the result that matters.

I’m ALSO not claiming the original post is the end all of explanations. It’s only a conversation that I found, in retrospect, exceedingly interesting. You may draw your own conclusions from it.

3. This change is an insult. This change is a slap in the face. And if you don’t understand the outcry, it’s because you were not the one insulted.

4. Azzarello is good at what he does, no argument. In fact, I have enough faith in his skill that I think he’d have succeeded even if the “Zeus” thing was shot down as it should have been.

And please. No one is positing a conspiracy, except as a bleak joke. What DC’s more likely guilty of is groupthink, is putting together a crack team of creative minds who are working from a set of similar and unchallenged assumptions that… well.

Brought us to a point where bleak jokes about conspiracies are necessary, I guess.

If there are annoyingly loud cries of “sexism!” at the changes to Starfire and Harley Quinn, and at Supergirl’s bared and red-framed side-butt, and at an un-weighty Amanda Waller in a cleavage bearing shirt, and at Wonder Woman’s story shifting to be about her reaction to a Paternal Figure she never needed before…

At some point, there starts to emerge a pattern.

Text

re: Wonder Woman’s new origin

steenar:

odditycollector:

The most amusing (read: “amusing”) thing is that a couple years ago, I was discussing Wonder Woman with someone who offered that “Wonder Woman makes guys uncomfortable.”

Me: What, cause she can beat them up?

Her: No, because no man was involved in her genesis. Simply by her existence, she’s a threat to the assumption of male necessity.*

But of course, I did not take this theory very seriously!

People the joke is on: ME.

*English major. I am paraphrasing, but I got the impression she’d just finished an essay on the topic.

Really? I don’t see this change as the writer or editors or fans feeling intimidated by Wonder Woman’s original origin. They simply wanted to tie her more directly to Greek mythology. 

But I guess if you want to make everything about sexism. That’s your choice. 

But I guess if you want to make everything about sexism. That’s your choice.

“But I guess if you want to make everything about sexism. That’s your choice.

“But I guess if you want to make everything about sexism. That’s your choice.

“But I guess if you want to make everything about sexism. That’s your choice.

“But I guess if you want to make everything about sexism. That’s your choice.

Also:

“They simply wanted to tie her more directly to Greek mythology.”

Yeah, clearly her origin was missing some Greek mythology.

Text

Classic derailing!

georgethecat:

 I’m a woman and I didn’t feel this was sexist!!!!!! therefore it’s NOT and I liked it so stop talking about it GOD

YOU JUST DON’T UNDERSTAND LIZ

IF *I* DON’T FIND IT SEXIST, NO ONE SHOULD!!!1!

Seriously though, part of what pissed me off about Red Hood and the Outlaws was that the side effect of what they did with Starfire, made Jason Todd and Roy Harper turn into people who weren’t the good guys they used to be. Obviously, you can argue the whole villain/anti-hero/hero angle with Jason, but as you’ve often pointed out, he’s always treated women well (and not in a condescending chivalrous manner either, I’d say).

The whole thing with Kory/Kori not remembering anything giving off vibes of amnesia that raise the question of consent, and seeing Jason and Roy basically high-fiving over this “opportunity” with her. It felt creepy and really sketchy.

They went from being characters and men I regarded as good-at-heart and, IDK, “safe”, to people I wouldn’t want to be alone in a room with, you know?

It hurt all three characters, so I don’t get where people are coming from when complaining about FYJT addressing problems with the comic, because those problems affect Jason too.

Quote
"Not being racist is not some default starting position. You don’t simply get to say you’re not a racist; not being racist — or a sexist or a homophobe — is a constant, arduous process of unlearning, of being uncomfortable, of eating crow and being humbled and re-evaluating. It’s probably hard to start that process if you’ve been told that every thought you have is golden and should be given voice, and that people who are offended by what you say are hypersensitive simpletons."

PostBourgie (via postponelife, meowsense) (via jadedfucker) (via freshmouthgoddess) (via soydulcedeleche) (via super-eklectic1) (via dumbthingswhitepplsay) (via wtfwhiteprivilege) (via manifestfreedom) (via brazenbitch) (via redcaves) (via lesbiansforsatan) (via crucijada) (via awyeahmona) (via mimetic-heresy) (via alliterate)

Text

TELL ME SOMETHING I HAVEN’T HEARD

(This is to accompany this. Since apparently text-cuts don’t work in photo posts! Uhg, tumblr, why?!)


For a larger version of this image, go here.

About halfway through drawing this, I realized what I had created was effectively a Bingo Card, but perhaps a slightly more emotive one. So I’ll explain a bit of what’s behind it.

I first got into comics through feminist criticism of comics. I’m a feminist. And I love comics. The two things for me are inseparable, and I make no apologies for it. Both are a part of who I am. I’m also a fan of superheroes and superhero comics.

When it comes to discussions about women in comics, sexism in superhero comics, and so forth, I’m always reading, sometimes linking, and commenting a bit here and there. If you pay attention for a while as a female (and possibly feminist) comics reader, and/or superhero fan, you start to hear the same things over and over again. It becomes predictable and repetitive pretty quickly.

Below I’ve expanded on what I’m talking about. It’s lengthy, so it’s behind a text cut.

Read More

Photo
TELL ME SOMETHING I HAVEN’T HEARD
About halfway through drawing this, I realized what I had created was effectively a Bingo Card, but perhaps a slightly more emotive one. So I’ll explain a bit of what’s behind it.I first got into comics through feminist criticism of comics. I’m a feminist. And I love comics. The two things for me are inseparable, and I make no apologies for it. Both are a part of who I am. I’m also a fan of superheroes and superhero comics.When it comes to discussions about women in comics, sexism in superhero comics, and so forth, I’m always reading, sometimes linking, and commenting a bit here and there. If you pay attention for a while as a female (and possibly feminist) comics reader, and/or superhero fan, you start to hear the same things over and over again. It becomes predictable and repetitive pretty quickly.
Below I’ve expanded on what I’m talking about. It’s lengthy, so it’s behind a text cut.
EDIT: apparently “read more” text cuts don’t work on photo posts, so the full thing is HERE. Oh tumblr, you difficult thing, you.

TELL ME SOMETHING I HAVEN’T HEARD

About halfway through drawing this, I realized what I had created was effectively a Bingo Card, but perhaps a slightly more emotive one. So I’ll explain a bit of what’s behind it.

I first got into comics through feminist criticism of comics. I’m a feminist. And I love comics. The two things for me are inseparable, and I make no apologies for it. Both are a part of who I am. I’m also a fan of superheroes and superhero comics.

When it comes to discussions about women in comics, sexism in superhero comics, and so forth, I’m always reading, sometimes linking, and commenting a bit here and there. If you pay attention for a while as a female (and possibly feminist) comics reader, and/or superhero fan, you start to hear the same things over and over again. It becomes predictable and repetitive pretty quickly.

Below I’ve expanded on what I’m talking about. It’s lengthy, so it’s behind a text cut.

EDIT: apparently “read more” text cuts don’t work on photo posts, so the full thing is HERE. Oh tumblr, you difficult thing, you.

Quote
"

The women upset about this image aren’t merely upset that Starfire has been reduced to a vapid, emotionless object for the visual pleasure of men. Fanservice ain’t gonna end the world, folks. Tits happen. However, the repeated promotion and distribution of these images and stories to the masses coupled with the lack of opportunities for women to give voice to their own viewpoints—and more importantly, have those viewpoints seen (shelf space) and heard (PR)—is infuriating. We’re depending on men to tell our stories for us because we are not hired to tell our own. Forgive us for being a little agitated when you use that power to depict us in a way that makes us look like morons. And collect a check and health insurance for it.

Several nationally distributed tales of a white man who is shown to be a slovenly idiot is not going to have negative repercussions for white men because they have the power to refute those images (and do) by bombarding the market with positive images that are also widely seen and heard. Several nationally distributed tales of a black woman who is shown to be a slovenly idiot is going to have negative repercussions for black women because there is only one black woman in a position to refute them and even she does not have the power or money to bombard the market with positive images. So, lo and behold, a stereotype is born decades later and very real women suffer the consequences for it in their personal lives.

We all have our biases. Luckily, bias sans power is toothless. I don’t want these images to go away. I don’t even want to scold those who enjoy them. I just want to strip the power from them.

Fight Starfire with Starfire.

"

- DigitalFemme (Go read the whole post.)

I think this might be my favourite commentary on this whole thing so far.

Text

thewherefores:

“If you’re just complaining about this stuff to hear yourself complain, with no intention of changing your reading or buying habits, because you somehow need the security blanket of the same ol’ superhero comics you’ve always read, knock yourself out. You will get more of the same, and you can make yourself feel important by denouncing these creepy, cringe-worthy comics whilst continuing to support them like the good little fangirl you are.”

http://it-sparkles.blogspot.com/2011/09/stop.html (via comixace)

Down for this, of course. Complaining is not enough—we need to take concrete action, individually and in numbers, against sexism in comics. Call to arms, kids etc. etc. 

But then there’s this:

Support the books that do it right. Stop calling attention to all the offensive material, because seriously? What you’re really doing is helping the very things you hate find a wider audience. So, stop.

#sideeye

like the good little fangirl you are.

#sideeye

Listen up ladies, boyfriend’s gonna show us how to do feminism, fandom and media activism right. Complaining about sexism in superhero comics is silly, because what else did you expect, right?

Except—ALL sexism is harmful, ALL sexism is worth calling out. The micro level matters, because by and large, that is where people live.

Except—superhero comics are not in fact simple soft core, id-porn. Heroic fiction is, culturally speaking, kind of a big deal. Superman means something to people. By dint of being on a massively popular cartoon, Starfire means something to people. Superhero comics can be better, and they should be better.

Except—new readers deserve the chance to weigh in on this issue, and they don’t deserve to be scolded for not being into cool comics. What I’m saying is that, a) not everyone is ~over this conversation, and b) “But why are you reading The Outsiders anyway?” isn’t helpful in this context. 

Except—“What you’re really doing is helping the very things you hate find a wider audience. So stop.” Nope! People are bringing attention to the comics and to the problem at same time, and in the process, finding new allies and enemies. They’re opening the conversation to new voices, and that’s a good thing.

Yeeah, well said.

That original quote just sounds like “shut up already!” And nope.

Photo
newyorker:


The Woman Who Is Obsessed with Her Career and Is No Fun at All
I  regularly work sixteen hours a day. Yet, like most people I know  who  are similarly busy, I’m a pleasant, pretty normal person. But  that’s not  how working women are depicted in movies. I’m not always  barking orders  into my hands-free phone device and yelling, “I have no  time for this!”  Often, a script calls for this uptight career woman to  “relearn” how to  seduce a man, and she has to do all sorts of crazy  degrading crap, like  eat a hot dog in a sexy way or something. And  since when does holding a  job necessitate that a woman pull her hair  back in a severe, tight bun?  Do screenwriters think that loose hair  makes it hard to concentrate.

- Mindy Kaling (Kelly Kapoor of “The Office”) on one of the many  specimens of women who exist in romantic comedies, but do not exist in  real life. Click here for the rest of Mindy’s guide to women in the movies. 

Mindy Kaling continues to be awesome.

newyorker:

The Woman Who Is Obsessed with Her Career and Is No Fun at All

I regularly work sixteen hours a day. Yet, like most people I know who are similarly busy, I’m a pleasant, pretty normal person. But that’s not how working women are depicted in movies. I’m not always barking orders into my hands-free phone device and yelling, “I have no time for this!” Often, a script calls for this uptight career woman to “relearn” how to seduce a man, and she has to do all sorts of crazy degrading crap, like eat a hot dog in a sexy way or something. And since when does holding a job necessitate that a woman pull her hair back in a severe, tight bun? Do screenwriters think that loose hair makes it hard to concentrate.

- Mindy Kaling (Kelly Kapoor of “The Office”) on one of the many specimens of women who exist in romantic comedies, but do not exist in real life.

Click here for the rest of Mindy’s guide to women in the movies.

Mindy Kaling continues to be awesome.

(via killsmedead)

Quote
"The whole delusion of she must be attempting to be seductive or she wouldn’t be wearing that / talking about this is at its core egotistical. And, fine, let’s say a woman is trying to be seductive. What the hell makes you think you’re the one she’s trying to seduce? And if you aren’t, what the hell makes you think you have any right to shove yourself into her business? Your thoughts are your own: you are free to notice her, think about her, fantasize, etc.–you are not free to involve her, through actions or words that disclose what’s going on in your pants, unless she specifically consents and makes it clear."

The Nonconsensual Sexualization of Unintending Young Women, by Nahida at The Fatal Feminist. (via skalja)

Text

oh what nonsense

shobogan:

aliceranaway:

Pro-tip: If you are calling Barbara Gordon a MARY SUE in a world that includes Batman (aka, I can beat up Superman and steal Green Lantern’s ring rich white dude who is better than EVERYONE!!!!!) then your opinion is invalid.

In other news, Mary Sue continues to be nothing more than a bullshit misogynist label used by people who still think gendered insults are okay.

Ugh, yes. Can we just - not use this term? Ever?

There are legitimate criticisms to be made of many characters. Sometime their good traits and talents are told more than shown. Sometimes people fawn over them for little reason. Sometimes they have no flaws, or their flaws aren’t recognised by the text or the other characters.

Just say that and dispense with a term that’s been consistently used to dismiss and disparage any female character who dares to be distinct.

Apply those criticisms, and apply them equally.

I actually feel really strongly that Mary Sue isn’t a term that should be banned. It’s one of those things where, if wielded well, it doesn’t have to be an insult or negative descriptor.

Mary Sues are NOT inherently bad, and it IS a problem that a lot of people use the term to invalidate a character or story, and given that it mostly pertains to female characters/female creators there is that extra special layer of sexism.

After all, what is a Mary Sue story if not a female power fantasy? And power fantasies are at the very root of superheroes, and at the root of just about a million other genres with amazing heroic dudes amazing cool things.

I want MORE Mary Sues.

And yeah, Batman is such a wonderful Mary Sue/Gary Stu, I love him for it. But it would be nice if more female characters who got to be uber-competent without people talking about how she needs to be more “realistic” or more “relatable” by bringing her down a peg or two, or five hundred.

And to anyone who wants to bring it up, yes, I am fully aware that seeing as “Mary Sue” evolved out of fanfiction. I’m aware that a lot of people have negative views on fanfic, people associate Mary Sues with “amateur” writing and assume all Mary Sues are thinly-veiled egocentric self-inserts and/or badly written. (That also adds another layer of sexism, given how popular fanfic writing is among women, and women’s writing inevitably gets denigrated no matter what form it’s in.)

But again, HELLO! There are so many thinly-veiled egocentric self-inserts in superhero comics and plenty of them are badly written. However, they usually happen to be male characters with male creators behind them. They just don’t get dismissed as frequently or with the same fervency that female characters or female creators do.

I think “Mary Sue” is something that needs to be reclaimed as something positive. (I’m not the only one: just look at The Mary Sue, a women’s geek news site.)

(Source: zarabithia)